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Thread: WAMUQ -- Your Guide to Early Retirement

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  1. #1 WAMUQ -- Your Guide to Early Retirement 
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    I received too many questions regarding why WAMUQ could go from today's closing price of just under .11 (eleven cents) to $8, $12, or even $24. But basically, WAMU isn't bankrupt and they shouldve never been forced to sell themselves to JPMorgan Chase for $1.88B when they had over $30B in assets! All will come to fruition in the near-term future, maybe as early as Wednesday, so you need to get in this immediately if you choose to.

    Here's the full break-down, sorry I dont have time to reply to everyone individually, this will just have to suffice:


    Possible Prices per Share After Settlement: $8, $12, $24 (if settlement does in fact occur)

    WAMUQ Calendar of Events: http://www.my.calendars.net/wmi

    July MOR: http://www.box.net/shared/7bf15ri0yo

    Twitter Feed: http://twitter.com/WaMuUpdates

    Video Analysis of the Chart: http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards....aspx?v_id=578

    AUDIO ARCHIVE:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b...5965eaa7bc68bc

    Expected Refund: The current estimate for the total expected refunds net of potential payments, is in the range of approximately $2.6-$3.0 billion.

    Today's Major Breakthrough: JUDGE WALRATH DENIES FIRREA AND ITS PROTECTION TO JPMC AND FDIC. (this is huge!)


    Latest Happening:
    With all the questions today I thought I would make a little phone call off the cuff.

    1 - Asked Evan if JPM submitted docs for discovery. He said not yet but they were scheduled to do so by the end of this week or the beginning of next. He said JPM will supply documents on a rolling basis. He also expects delays in this and having to go to the court on some aspects. He stated that discovery can take quite some time. He is not sure how many of the docs we will be able to see as there is debate between parties as to how confidential to make this.

    2 - Have any depositions been scheduled? No. They are waiting until docs come in to see who and when they will depose anyone. I asked about the deposition we heard about on the court hearing today and he stated that was in relation to the 4 billion turnover action.

    3 - I asked about settlement talks. He stated that talks are ongoing along with preparing for this case to be litigated. Every base is being covered.

    4 - I asked about JPM bringing up FIRREA again and how this smacks of desperation. He agreed and stated that you can only irritate the court so much. (I think they might have reached that point today.) I continued by saying how this shows that they are scared of the outcome and that is why they are seeking to delay so much. He agreed.

    5 - I closed by stating what Brian Rosen stated about a significant recovery for the estate. He told me that they were working on it but that it was “above his pay grade”. I liked that answer.


    Conclusion:
    That's a lot of information to sift thru, but if you've got the time, I suggest you take a gander. I already have a substantial position and will continue to add at any given chance. Expect people that are starting to hear bits and pieces of what's going on to hop on-board the wagon, which in-turn means the share float is going to get really, really, really tight and it's going to drive up the PPS (price per share) in the mean time even before we get a court ruling. You need to get into this trade immediately upon reading this article if you intend to act.

    Let's please keep the WAMUQ discussion on this threat rather than my other thread. Thank you in advance. I will try to update everyone with new happenings as they progress on this board.


    GLTA
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  2. #2  
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    Ok, I have some questions.

    First off, you say that WAMU isn't bankrupt, yet they have filed for Chapter 11. That's bankrupt to me. They don't own so much as a fax machine. What was once Washington Mutual is now owned by a Trustee. What assets do they have? Are you contending that their assets are so significantly more than their liabilities that the low man on the totem pole (common shareholders) will benefit?

    Also, other than a spike in the Q's share price (which will then trend to zero as they are BK), how can someone who buys shares today expect to benefit from any settlement should it come?

    How can shares be restored to $8 or more when the company was insolvent and the stock was at $2 when it was seized by the FDIC?

    I'll have more questions later, but I would like to see how you respond. It's apparent that you have done your DD so I'm considering this an opportunity to learn.

    Obviously, by my presence on this board I like to gamble. But at this time, I just don't see the case for longing this stock.
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  3. #3  
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    My best example would be to check out LEHPQ. Isn't Lehman Brother's Bankrupt?? Why are their Preferred Shares still trading at $1.60?? They went all the way down to .01 (one penny), then all the way up to $5, then back down to under $2. Another example, check out WaMu's preferreds (WAMPQ), they are now trading at $22. The pay-out expected to the preferreds is appx $500/share. The reason they're getting traded down is because people are realizing the percentage return is going to be greater on the commons (WAMUQ) than on the Preferreds, so they're selling their preferreds to buy the commons. If a company is bankrupt, why would their shares be trading at such a premium?? It's because lawyers and people that saw what happened with the whole Bear Stearns deal think a similar outcome will occur with WaMu, so they're piling in to try to take advantage of the situation, and I dont blame them ... that's why I did the same thing and I'm informing you all of what the possible outcome could be.

    And to answer your other question, WaMu Bank doesn't have so much as a Fax Machine, you're absolutely right. But, they had Billions worth of real estate and other invesments that were acquired by JPM (which is all JPM's property as a result of the sale).

    This is going to be the same case with WAMUQ, as it was with Bear Stearns last year. WAMUQ is in fact the trustee (ie: estate), not WaMu Bank. The estate is supposed to be getting upwards of at least $3B (billion!) back from JPMorgan since JPM under-payed for what they got. So, basically, JPM paid $2B for something that was worth $30B+. Sounds like an insane deal to me, too good to be true, a 1500% ROI instantly! And why did they need a bailout again?? Now, the FDIC is realizing they should've never declared WaMu insolvent, raising a lot of red flags as to why they let the JPM deal go thru in the first place.

    WaMu shouldve never been declared insolvent (and ultimately forced into Chapter 11) ... therefore, JPM should have to pay WaMu shareholders the amount they would've been entitled to had the bank not declared bankruptcy. There is a lot of confusion surrounding the whole situation but, in the end, it seems like the shareholders are going to get what is rightfully owed to them. That buy-out would be in the range of $8-$12 ... but now you have to throw in the FDIC factor (which I dont totally understand because I'm not a lawyer, Im an investor). The FDIC factor is to have to pay the full-amount that WaMu wouldve been able to sell itself for had it chosen to do so on it's own free will. So, you take the $8-12 that JPM is likely going to fork up, and minus that from what WaMu was worth, and you get a PPS in the ballpark of $20-24 (including both JPM and FDIC pay-outs).


    FYI, I also own LEHPQ, but the timeframe for that is still quite questionable whereas I informed everyone of WAMUQ because the trial was kicking off today and a settlement could happen at any time now. I'd recommend picking up a couple hundred shares of LEHPQ too. If you can be patient, you'll likely be greatly rewarded here as well. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm trying to explain it the best way that I can. Hope this helps clarify more for you. Nothing is guaranteed here, but I'm just trying to enlighten the masses as to what the possible outcome could (and looking like, likely will) be.
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  4. #4  
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    But wouldn't any settlement go to pay the shareholders at the time of the seizure, the ones who got burned? It doesn't seem reasonable that someone can buy shares the day before a suspected settlement and get rewarded.
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  5. #5  
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    It seems a bit far-fetched upon first discovering this opportunity, but once you start speaking with bankruptcy lawyers, more and more light gets shined on this little gem.

    The commons may be low on the totem pole, but again, the notion of "pre" and "post" seizure, is nonsense. ALL shares, have been harmed, who owns them at the moment, is irrelevant, if a settlement is made, it will be applied equally to all the common shares, not just a portion of them.

    And technically, you would have to own the shares for 2-3 days before the announcement to be 100% safe. This is because a trade takes (typically) three days to be fully completed. Therefore, if you buy the day before the announcement, your trade hasn't technically settled and can be cancelled by your broker. So, if you bought Monday and a settlement is announced at midnight on Wednesday, you're safe.
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  6. #6  
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    Updates:

    Not my quote:
    I know for a fact that IRS rules and regulations attribute stock ownership of a child to a parent and a subsidiary to a parent corporation, and I am almost certain the sec has such rules as well. So I don't think JPM will buy up the stock directly before any announcement to buy out the holding company. My theory is this. JPM's desire to settle is partly motivated by the necessity to make amends or make whole the stockholders of WMI who also were/are/will be customers of JPM whether it be Bill Gates, the chinese, hedge funds, old money, etc. Those that need to be compensated have been advised to acquire the stock at bargain prices with a gentlemans understanding that it will be sold to JPM in the future at a cerain price. If necessary the fed, which is authorized to intervene in the markets and is never audited, may be utilized to acquire some of the parent holding company shares. WHen the deal is announced it looks like JPM is once again the "savior" to correct an injustice, and pay fair market value, but in the end JPM will have ended up with WMI for just the cost to appease its friends and customers and perhaps members of congress who vote for an fdic appropriation. Those of us who hold tightly will be paid $12 plus, but most of the shares will be acquired on the sly for much less imho.

    Pt 2:
    I just read the holding company's brief in support of their motion to dismiss JPM's counterclaims and am confident WMI will prevail on this motion. This was filed yesterday. It is interesting to note that within the brief, the holding company asks the court to hold a hearing on the summary judgment motion right after Ms. Logan's (sp?) deposition is taken. That says to me the holding company lawyers are very confident in her testimony and in their summary judgment motion.
    With respect to the motion for leave to appeal, the bankruptcy judge was very confident in her decision yesterday denying jpm's motion to dismiss the holding company's claims against JPM stating there was no change in the facts or law and that her previously ruling was now the law of the case. She knows about the pending motion for leave to appeal...and if she was any bit concerned about the possibility of that motion being granted by the chief judge, she would have delayed making additional rulings until the chief judge ruled on the motion.
    Now, ask yourselves can JPM really afford to let its counterclaims be dismissed before settlement is reached? Moreover, remember that the holding company's lawyers are asking that the district court action against the fdic (which jpm cannot become a party by law) be stayed until the pending bankruptcy adversary matters are resolved. Why? The claims are different so there is no reason to delay that litigation unless the fdic has indicated it will settle imho. So although I don't like to predict when settlement will occur, my thinking it has to be close at hand. Seems the denial of the motion for leave to appeal will be the straw that breaks JPM's back. JMHO.


    Looking better every day ... today had twice as much volume as usual ... i think word is getting out about what might happen. Ignore the price, that's the MMs trying to keep it down so everyone doesnt pile in ahead of the announcement, they want their shares to be worth $8, not .11 : )

    GLTA
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  7. #7  
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    I'm just not seeing it. WAMUQ was down on high volume and JPM was up on low volume. If these shares are set to skyrocket, I just don't see this kind of action preceding it.

    I'm going to pass on this one, but I'm going to keep an eye on it and I wish you the best of luck.
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  8. #8  
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    i wouldn't touch wamu with somebody else's money. shit, jedm is a better choice, and yet my inner demons don't have the balls to touch that one.
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  9. #9  
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    JEDM was just for the easy money, it's prob not worth more than .20 IMHO.

    Took an easy 50% off the table today buying at an avg price of .104, and selling at .155. WAMUQ update below. But check out my other thread, those are real investments!
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  10. #10  
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    LATEST HAPPENING:


    FEDERAL RESERVE LOSES A BIG ONE IN COURT.
    This will get the eyeballs popping I'm certain.



    Court Orders Fed to Disclose Emergency Bank Loans (Update2)
    By Mark Pittman
    Last Updated: August 25, 2009 16:30 EDT
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a7CC61ZsieV4

    Aug. 25 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve must for the first time identify the companies in its emergency lending programs after losing a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.

    Manhattan Chief U.S. District Judge Loretta Preska ruled against the central bank yesterday, rejecting the argument that loan records aren’t covered by the law because their disclosure would harm borrowers’ competitive positions.

    The Fed has refused to name the financial firms it lent to or disclose the amounts or the assets put up as collateral under 11 programs, most put in place during the deepest financial crisis since the Great <NOBR style="COLOR: darkgreen; FONT-SIZE: 100%; FONT-WEIGHT: normal" id=itxt_nobr_6_0>Depression</NOBR>, saying that doing so might set off a run by depositors and unsettle shareholders. Bloomberg LP, the New York-based company majority-owned by Mayor Michael Bloomberg, sued on Nov. 7 on behalf of its Bloomberg News unit.

    “The Federal Reserve has to be accountable for the decisions that it makes,” said U.S. Representative Alan Grayson, a Florida Democrat on the House Financial Services Committee, after Preska’s ruling. “It’s one thing to say that the Federal Reserve is an independent institution. It’s another thing to say that it can keep us all in the dark.”

    ‘Inadequate Search’

    The judge said the central bank “improperly withheld agency records” by “conducting an inadequate search” after Bloomberg News reporters filed a request under the information act. She gave the Fed five days to turn over documents it told the reporters it located, including 231 pages of reports, and said it must look for more at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, which runs most of the loan programs.

    The central bank “essentially speculates on how a borrower might enter a downward spiral of financial instability if its participation in the Federal Reserve lending programs were to be disclosed,” Preska wrote. “Conjecture, without evidence of imminent harm, simply fails to meet the Board’s burden” of proof.

    David Skidmore, a Fed spokesman who said the board’s staff was reviewing the 47-page ruling, declined to comment on whether the central bank would appeal to the U.S. Court of Appeals in New York.

    Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, who led the biggest expansion of the central bank’s power in its 95-year history, was nominated to a second term today by President Barack <NOBR style="COLOR: darkgreen; FONT-SIZE: 100%; FONT-WEIGHT: normal" id=itxt_nobr_12_0>Obama</NOBR>.

    Banks Worried

    Obama promised a new era of government openness when he took office in January, issuing a statement telling agencies “to adopt a presumption in favor of disclosure” in responding to requests under FOIA.

    Banks are worried that the disclosure of borrowers’ identities by the Fed, the lender of last resort, would cause customers to empty their bank accounts in a run on the bank, said Scott Talbott, vice president of governmental affairs at the Washington-based Financial Services Roundtable, a lobbying group.

    “This issue is: ‘This bank borrowed X billion from the Fed, therefore they must be in trouble, therefore I’m going to pull my money out,” said Talbott. “That’s the type of danger that we’re worried about. That’s the risk.”

    Bloomberg LP said in the suit that U.S. taxpayers need to know the terms of Fed lending because the public became an “involuntary investor” in the nation’s banks as the financial crisis deepened and the government began shoring up companies with capital injections and loans. <NOBR style="COLOR: darkgreen; FONT-SIZE: 100%; FONT-WEIGHT: normal" id=itxt_nobr_17_0>Citigroup</NOBR> Inc. and American International Group Inc. are among those who have said they accepted Fed loans.

    ‘Unprecedented Ways’

    “When an unprecedented amount of taxpayer dollars were lent to financial institutions in unprecedented ways and the Federal Reserve refused to make public any of the details of its extraordinary lending, Bloomberg News asked the court why U.S. citizens don’t have the right to know,” said Matthew Winkler, the editor-in-chief of Bloomberg News. “We’re gratified the court is defending the public’s right to know what is being done in the public interest.”

    The Fed’s balance sheet about doubled after lending standards were relaxed in the wake of the collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. on Sept. 15, 2008. For the week ended Aug. 19, Fed assets rose 2.3 percent to $2.06 trillion as it continued to buy mortgage-backed securities under a program allowing the central bank to purchase non-government securities for the first time.

    Fed Audits

    The U.S. House may vote as soon as next month on a bill to require the Fed to submit to audits by the Government Accountability Office, said Representative Scott Garrett, a New Jersey Republican on the Financial Services Committee.

    The judge’s ruling “is strikingly good news,” Garrett said. “This is what the American people have been asking for.”

    The Freedom of Information Act obliges federal agencies to make government documents available to the press and public. The Bloomberg suit, filed in New York, didn’t seek money damages.

    “The public deserves to know what’s being done with the money,” said Lucy Dalglish, executive director of the Arlington, Virginia-based Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. “This ought to be a wake-up call for the public that they need to be far more educated about this.”

    The case is Bloomberg LP v. Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, 08-CV-9595, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York (Manhattan).
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  11. #11  
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    Great information just contributed by a knowledgeable forum member:


    the wmi stock we hold is the holding company. but fdic is running multiple wamu outlets in the ny area that jpm didnt want. those are still ours. i dont feel jpm or fdic will buy the holding company and the holding company has agreed to sell what banks they wished to acquire but for a price. not 1.8bil but much more. jpm and fdic i feel dont want the entire company or better yet to pay for the entire company. thus providian, cherry picking of the cc company by jpmc but owned by the holding company. they are segregating accounts now at jpm. mine was tagged with a wmc (washington mutual corp) and orig date of my card when i had to redo my username and this has never happened before. i was orig providian and they changed to chase but with the wamu name on the front. a noticable trademark infringment! jpm will pay dearly for that too.

    my opinion is that they are going to come out of bk in sept as planned. they have already changed their name with the sec. they changed the name by adding one comma. instead of washington mutual inc. it reads washington mutual,inc. they have a ticker symbol wmi that is available because of the previous company changing their ticker to wm from wmi. (waste management) they have so much money in the holding company and real estate. they could truly come out and kick some royal wall street butt and buy any bank they want and continue on. i hope they turn out. i am holding for divi's. or they might be doing all of this setup to force the hand of jpm and fdic. wmi was jpm stiffist competition. i know they want elimination but they have to pay for that! we'll see how far the pockets deepen here soon. and their is a little company GS that got shut out of this competition, and i dont feel they would go thru the bother of setting up the tpg-wamu marriage with 7 bil then short the stock to oblivion to mimick a failed entity, just to let their competition succeed. they thought they were going to be victorious. and i think they are waiting for the opportunity to jump in. they and everyone else knows what happened. that is why the banks arent lending now. because if wamu with its holding company, that was solvent, was taken down by fdic for "systemic risk?" who would have been next? holding companies are sacred in banking. it is a massive power grab for fdic and the fed reserve.

    fed reserve is not accountable to u.s. but since the ruling yesterday about the feds having to disclose under freedom of information act, who knows what will happen. this could truly blow up in their faces. this was illegal in so many ways to the american people as taxpayers, the wmi family as stock holders, and jpm stockholders for non disclosure of solvency. jpm was in trouble and if they had went down so would have social security. wamu saved their ass and they will pay soon. but in what capacity wmi will return is pending soley on how deep the pockets run. either way we are golden!!!! hold your shares because i feel a bidding war a brewing!! they could offer whatever then GS or wfc could run the bid up. dont sell too soon.
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    these are all horrible stocks IMO.....maybe theres money to be made maybe not but id rather play blackjack or craps then invest my money in bankrupt crooked companies...different strokes for different folks.

    my favorite play is SVM....making money, no debt, china, inflation protection, dividend
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  13. #13  
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    Opinion noted ... lets touch base in 6 months to a year and see whose stocks have made a higher percentage return. Deal? : )


    WAMUQ is the only "bankrupt" company I have recommended ... and theyre really not bankrupt despite what you've heard. Check out Bear Stearns for a good reference. Ohh wait, didnt they go bankrupt?? Then why did their shareholders get bought out at $10/share?? Oh wait, you didnt hear about that because the media doesnt report these things. You'll miss the boat like a lot of people missed Bear Stearns' boat and the 5000% return you wouldve gotten there. GL on your little mining play, lol.
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  14. #14  
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    Many of the people who were bought out at $10 were holding from $50-$70.
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    What about the people that got in when it was way cheaper? The people that bought at the bottom and cashed out on people's not knowing what would happen ... WaMu is the same case.


    Quote Originally Posted by Death Eats a Cracker View Post
    Many of the people who were bought out at $10 were holding from $50-$70.
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    Great read on how the JPM / WaMu deal went down:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3087631/JP-Morgan-Chase-raises-10bn-after-Washington-Mutual-buyout.html


    Key Points from above article:
    WaMu had $310bn of assets and $182bn of deposits at the end of June. Together the two banks will have more than $900bn of customer deposits.
    WaMu is JP Morgan's second acquisition this year of a distressed financial institution. In March, it bought investment bank Bear Stearns for about $2.1bn.

    (please note, Bear Stearns shareholders received payment of $8/share after some court rulings. Could WaMu shareholders be next?)


    Also: "JP Morgan, which won the auction, has long had its eyes on the failed bank's branch network in California, Florida and Washington State. "


    Just before the so-called "insolvency" of WaMu:
    JPM offers WaMu $8/share: http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2008/04/washington_mutual_spurned_jp_m.php


    Sounds kinda fishy to me considering JPM had been eyeing them already and offered to buy them out. Sounds like the Fed didnt want to have to deal with creating bailout money at this time, so just declare them insolvent and allow JPM to get them for $2B since these guys are all in the big banks pockets. And remember, "WaMu had $310bn of assets and $182bn of deposits at the end of June," ... where did all the money go?? I think this is gonna pay us off just like the Bear Stearns shareholders got paid.
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  17. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuwlness View Post

    Just before the so-called "insolvency" of WaMu:
    JPM offers WaMu $8/share: http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/200...urned_jp_m.php

    Sounds kinda fishy to me considering JPM had been eyeing them already and offered to buy them out. Sounds like the Fed didnt want to have to deal with creating bailout money at this time, so just declare them insolvent and allow JPM to get them for $2B since these guys are all in the big banks pockets. And remember, "WaMu had $310bn of assets and $182bn of deposits at the end of June," ... where did all the money go?? I think this is gonna pay us off just like the Bear Stearns shareholders got paid.
    JPM offered 8 a share and at that time the CEO turned it down

    later on they got diluted with a TPG (private equity) injection

    than they went tits up

    --------------

    bears stearns was alot more shady

    markets were crashing and rumors were flying like mad heading into monday open

    and ben and hanktator stepped in big time and just through out the 2 dollar a share offer (it closed at like 30 or something like that on friday before the shit went down) outta thin air....since they were scrambling to keep the shit from imploding....
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  18. #18  
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    watch abk.

    $1.20 right now. i gave you freddie and fannie a couple weeks ago when they were treading $1, now i'm giving you abk. by the end of next week abk will be treading $2. be a good time to get in to tomorrow, as i expect an early pullback to the $1.10 range

    mark this post.

    and all the angels busted out of heaven and raised hell on earth....
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  19. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by soonerdawg View Post
    watch abk.

    $1.20 right now. i gave you freddie and fannie a couple weeks ago when they were treading $1, now i'm giving you abk. by the end of next week abk will be treading $2. be a good time to get in to tomorrow, as i expect an early pullback to the $1.10 range

    mark this post.

    and all the angels busted out of heaven and raised hell on earth....
    There she goes...... Great call
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  20. #20  
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    Wow...f'n huge volume on abk.
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  21. #21  
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    man abk goin nutty nice call

    that said if i were long right now i'd be dumping here

    looking at the chart pretty much every previous huge volume up day since shit hit the fan in september has been followed by some blood in the trading sessions to come....
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  22. #22  
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    i got out at 1.78....gotta be careful with this stock. hoping to see a pull back in the next few days.
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    Yeah, all the junk stocks have been having good runs ... i dont think its gonna last. I'd say its a good day to pull out of those types and start looking to put your money in companies with a more stable outlook.
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  24. #24  
    Stock Trading and Handicapping Contrarian Spread Destroyerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuwlness View Post
    Yeah, all the junk stocks have been having good runs ... i dont think its gonna last. I'd say its a good day to pull out of those types and start looking to put your money in companies with a more stable outlook.
    How about putting money in FXP, QID, SRS, SKF, TZA...... I am foaming at the mouth waiting to pull the trigger on these bad boys as soon as the reversal looks like it's confirmed.
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  25. #25  
    Yo Mama Does It
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    Quote Originally Posted by soonerdawg View Post
    i got out at 1.78....gotta be careful with this stock. hoping to see a pull back in the next few days.
    so if it pulls back to $1.20 or less you will buy back?
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