Casinos fold on poker rooms

Search
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
99,709
Tokens
LAS VEGAS (AP) - The Tropicana hoped to step back into the big leagues when it opened its poker room in the heart of the Las Vegas Strip, touting it as the coolest in town.


But that same morning, federal agents shut down the three biggest online poker sites on the Internet. Last September, less than a year and a half later, the iconic casino quietly swapped out its green felt tables for slot machines.
It's a story that's become increasingly common as the crackdown on Internet gambling weakens poker's appeal, and the casinos that once competed to lure fans of Texas Hold 'Em abandon the waning game in favor of more lucrative alternatives.


Poker has never been a big moneymaker like slot machines or roulette. But when the game's popularity soared during the 2000s, casinos were willing to forgo the extra dollars to get players inside their buildings.


Now the calculus is shifting. In Sin City, epicenter of the poker craze, at least eight rooms have folded in the past two years. The trend is also playing out in Mississippi riverboats, Indian casinos and gambling halls near big cities from California to Florida.


Poker's proponents insist the game remains as popular as ever, and some larger casinos say their rooms are bustling.


In a statement this month announcing the World Series of Poker lineup, executive director Ty Stewart said the summer bonanza in Las Vegas would be an "affirmation about the strength and global appeal of the game."
But the spate of poker room closures on the Strip has some wondering whether the largest gambling trend to sweep the country in 25 years may be losing momentum.


"I just think the allure of poker is lessening," said William Thompson, author of the encyclopedia "Gambling in America" and professor of public administration at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. "That's one reason the smaller casinos would just say, 'Hey it's not worth all the time to set everything up. A slot machine would do a lot better.'"
Poker revenue has been falling in Nevada since 2007, the year after the federal government first cracked down on virtual gambling and forced online companies to close or relocate offshore.


The recession hobbled casinos across the board, but while winnings from other games began to pick back up in 2010, poker revenue continues to slump by an average of 6 percent a year, according to annual reports from the state Gaming Control Board.


Poker revenues stacked up to $123 million last year, down from a high of $168 million in 2007.


Entries in the World Series of Poker's main event also took tumble in 2007, falling by 28 percent from a high of 8,773. Entries have only topped 7,000 once in the years since.


On April 15, 2011, the federal government took its strongest stand yet against the semi-legal world of internet poker, blacking out three major sites on a date later dubbed "Black Friday."


No longer could fresh crops of poker players develop their games online.


The Tropicana hotel-resort, which was remaking itself with several major renovations at the time, opened its new poker room the same spring day.


"Poker had gone through a dramatic popularity phase. It grew really quickly. And we jumped on board," said Fred Harmon, chief marketing officer for the casino that sits on a busy Strip intersection opposite the MGM Grand and New York New York.


The decision to replace the room with slot machines last fall was pure economics, Harmon said.


"I think every company over the last several years have had to look at what they do and what makes money," he said.
Casinos across the country are making the same calculation.


Sam's Town in Tunica, Mississippi, closed its poker room in January, citing the economy. The Seminole Casino Hollywood near Fort Lauderdale, Fla., replaced its room with slots in September.


Indian casinos in states like Minnesota and the Dakotas are also pulling their rooms, according to marketing consultant Theron "Scarlet Raven" Thompson.


"What you're seeing is the mom and pop-sized poker rooms are closing. The larger properties are monopolizing the poker crowd," he said.


Several smaller Las Vegas casinos decided they no longer wanted to bet on the game in 2012, including Ellis Island, which closed its room just two months after opening it. Casino bosses also removed rooms from the Silverton south of the Strip, Aliante to the north, and Fitzgerald's, which eliminated its room when it rebranded as the D.


The Gold Coast, the Plaza and Tuscany casinos closed their rooms in 2011.


Poker has never been a high-profit game for casinos is because players exchange money with each other, not the house. Rooms must employ a dealer for every table and can only collect portion of what players put down, usually about 5 percent.


Yet at the height of the craze, casinos scrambled to install rooms for a new generation of fans.


The game's meteoric run is generally attributed to the rise of Internet gambling, new technology that let viewers see players' hidden cards in televised tournaments and a watershed moment during the 2003 World Series of Poker when an amateur with the unlikely name Chris Moneymaker claimed the $2.5 million first prize in front of a million television viewers.


After Moneymaker's win, the MGM Grand on the Las Vegas Strip reopened its poker room, which had been closed for years, and Caesars Palace announced plans to open its first room in more than a decade. The Venetian followed suit in 2006.


Mega-casinos continue to invest in the game. The Venetian added 17 tables to its room in September, making it the biggest game in town, Caesars Entertainment added a slot-style progressive jackpot element to its games earlier this year, and the expansive room at the Bellagio is still packed most nights.


Venetian poker director Kathy Raymond said the expansion, which was part of a larger casino floor renovation, has drawn more players to the already popular room.


"I think that the love people have for poker hasn't subsided," she said. "It may be part of the economic environment, but I don't think the interest has subsided at all."


She acknowledged that smaller casinos are struggling to claim their piece of the market.


"You really need volume to operate a successful poker room," she said. "The overhead can't be absorbed by just a few tables."


In the end, the very thing that made poker so appealing — its air of tradition and class — may be its undoing, at least on the gambling floor, William Thompson said. After all, casinos make their billions by giving people new and stimulating ways to lose money.


While slot machine developers can roll out a new "Family Guy" or "oodles of poodles" game ever few months, poker remains unchanged.


"With slot machines, you can keep reinventing them, so it's going to last longer. They're throwing new wrinkles in all the time," he said.


Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=AP&date=20130228&id=16177060
 

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
5,076
Tokens
not suprising at all i loved playing poker and with internet going down it curbed my enthusiasm to go the casino as much. along with the amount of people believing runner runner potential puts u on a draw.
 

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
5,076
Tokens
however this is awesome news for those who are investing in the future of online poker in new jersey
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
1,561
Tokens
No real shock after such an amazing boom it had to come back down to earth some eventually
 

Friendly and Helpful
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
2,840
Tokens
The Tropicana hoped to step back into the big leagues when it opened its poker room in the heart of the Las Vegas Strip, touting it as the coolest in town.


"What you're seeing is the mom and pop-sized poker rooms are closing.

Several smaller Las Vegas casinos decided they no longer wanted to bet on the game in 2012, including Ellis Island, which closed its room just two months after opening it. Casino bosses also removed rooms from the Silverton south of the Strip, Aliante to the north, and Fitzgerald's, which eliminated its room when it rebranded as the D. The Gold Coast, the Plaza and Tuscany casinos closed their rooms in 2011



It's obvious the writer of this story is total clueless. The Trop is nowhere near the heart of the strip at all. The Trop never had a true following, the main reason people stay at the Trop is for the low room rates and a lot of old timers thinking they are staying at an icon old school casino.

The Trop was only fooling themselves to think they were going to become relevant in the poker business in Vegas. Prior to their "upgrade" of their poker room they were lucky to have one table going period. The only time they had more than one table going is if they were lucky to get off a two table tournament and that's it. They never had a following at all period. They didn't even have a "local" base at all. Not to mention the room was located in the back of the casino in a very small room. If you took the bridge from MGM and took the escalator down to the floor the first place you passed was the poker room and if you didn't look you didn't know it was there. It was obscure and pretty much hidden away. The owners have no one to blame but themselves for this failure.

If you look at the list of other rooms closed, they are either off the strip or downtown. Even Binions wasn't doing so well in poker and people would come in to look at the past WSOP winners hanging on the wall. Once WSOP outgrew Binions downtown poker was pretty much done. Even with Poker After Dark filming at Golden Nugget it didn't help there as it wasn't something the public had access to.

Poker was written off after "Black Friday" and the first year the number of entrants was down for the Main Event but had a nice rebound last year and the success of One Drop was amazing. If anything, I think you'll see higher entrants this year over last. While online poker has taken it's fair share of hits due to the DOJ and the government not coming out and making it legal in the states it will recover.

As far as Vegas there was a consolidation of the players going to the rooms where they can get action all hours of the day and big money tournaments. Bellagio, Aria, Caesars, Wynn, MGM, go to any of these any time of the day and they are busy.

Think about it go to the MGM where there are 60+ tables going or go to the Trop where their isn't one table going, where do they think people were going to go?

Not a wise business move.
 

Maestro
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
4,081
Tokens
Last year during March Madness we stopped at the Tropicana at 2pm on a Friday/Saturday to see some friends. We decided to kill some time with poker but their wasnt a single game going on. Once a game formed, the game consisted of 4 70+year olds who were drinking coffee out of straws. Let me tell you, action table! "Taxi! Aria please"
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
29,752
Tokens
I think it depends on the place I was at the Wynn about 3 weeks ago and every time I walked past there were many games going on and I was there on a Monday-Thursday.....so it is location location location
 

New member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,056
Tokens
i think this is more a result of players going bust than a loss of interest in poker....I have seen the ups and down of the poker boom live.....You had these younger guys cashing thier paychecks, student loan checks and allowances showing up at all the poker rooms...And of course they would win big early on and then think they could play higher and more often...

I still play 3 or 4x a week at area casinos and almost all those players are gone....And the newer ones coming in are fewer and fewer...No Limit is a really dangerous game. Financially it will wreck you very fast if your not extremely careful...
 

New member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
637
Tokens
My casino in milwaukee still has it. i wonder if that will be gone soon?

no chance, potawatomi's poker room is pretty busy. at tropicana and other places that closed, they were lucky to have one table going on a weekday afternoon.

have you gotten fried chicken from the new place at the food court yet? i'm hooked on it
 

RX Local
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
24,032
Tokens
I don't foresee too many doing this.. some of them charge out of the butt for poker and give less and less comps (this is probably what will more than likely happen)

-murph
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
7,948
Tokens
I know when the Trop was under different management, my friend was manager of the poker room. They barely got one game going unless I came in there drunk and they'd start a game around me. Problem was I could still read my cards when drunk and when I won a few pots, the game disappeared.
 

New member
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
4,468
Tokens
Let's be honest. Poker gets old after a few hours. Especially if you're playing with a bunch of tools.
 

RX Local
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
24,032
Tokens
I have played for 30 hrs before and I have played for 8 hrs many times.. I think it just comes as part of the grind and the flow of the game. I personally like marathon sessions more because the dynamics of the game is longterm more in your favor than in short term

-murph
 

Member
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
31,627
Tokens
the rooms referred to as closing were mostly one table and no room, and silverton is reopened i think with a larger room
 

New member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,056
Tokens
separately i love the remodel of the trop...I would have no problem staying there....the smell is great now..
 

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
34,789
Tokens
Vegas casinos fold on dedicated poker rooms -- Weakened online, some wonder if game has peaked

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130305/BUSINESS/130309609/1003

Tuesday March 05, 2013<!-- .headerBar -->[h=3]The Buffalo News.com[/h][h=1]Business[/h]
<!-- This container is the primary media position and will contain chosen video, image or slideshow for the story -->
AR-130309609.jpg&maxW=602&maxH=392&AlignV=top
A poker player checks his hand during a game of Texas Hold ’Em last week in the poker room at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas. Associated Press photo

<!-- .articleMedia -->
<header>Vegas casinos fold on dedicated poker rooms
Weakened online, some wonder if game has peaked
By Hannah Dreier

ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: March 5, 2013, 12:01 AM
Updated: March 4, 2013, 11:28 PM

</header> LAS VEGAS – The Tropicana hoped to step back into the big leagues when it opened its poker room in the heart of the Las Vegas Strip, touting it as the coolest in town.

But that same morning, federal agents shut down the three biggest online poker sites on the Internet. Last September, less than a year and a half later, the iconic casino quietly swapped out its green felt tables for slot machines.

It’s a story that has become increasingly common as the crackdown on Internet gambling weakens poker’s appeal, and the casinos that once competed to lure fans of Texas Hold ’Em abandon the waning game in favor of more lucrative alternatives.

Poker has never been a big moneymaker like slot machines or roulette. But when the game’s popularity soared during the 2000s, casinos were willing to forgo the extra dollars to get players inside their buildings.

Now the calculus is shifting. In Sin City, epicenter of the poker craze, at least eight rooms have folded in the past two years. The trend is also playing out in Mississippi riverboats, Indian casinos and gambling halls near big cities from California to Florida.

Poker’s proponents insist the game remains as popular as ever, and some larger casinos say their rooms are bustling.

In a statement this month announcing the World Series of Poker lineup, executive director Ty Stewart said the summer bonanza in Las Vegas would be an “affirmation about the strength and global appeal of the game.”

But the spate of poker room closures on the Strip has some wondering whether the largest gambling trend to sweep the country in 25 years may be losing momentum.

“I just think the allure of poker is lessening,” said William Thompson, author of the encyclopedia “Gambling in America” and professor of public administration at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. “That’s one reason the smaller casinos would just say, ‘Hey it’s not worth all the time to set everything up. A slot machine would do a lot better.’”

Poker revenue has been falling in Nevada since 2007, the year after the federal government first cracked down on virtual gambling and forced online companies to close or relocate offshore.

The recession hobbled casinos across the board, but while winnings from other games began to pick back up in 2010, poker revenue continues to slump by an average of 6 percent a year, according to annual reports from the state Gaming Control Board.

Poker revenues stacked up to $123 million last year, down from a high of $168 million in 2007.

Entries in the World Series of Poker’s main event also took a tumble in 2007, falling by 28 percent from a high of 8,773. Entries have only topped 7,000 once in the years since.

On April 15, 2011, the federal government took its strongest stand yet against the semi-legal world of internet poker, blacking out three major sites on a date later dubbed “Black Friday.”

No longer could fresh crops of poker players develop their games online.

The Tropicana hotel-resort, which was remaking itself with several major renovations at the time, opened its new poker room the same spring day.

“Poker had gone through a dramatic popularity phase. It grew really quickly. And we jumped on board,” said Fred Harmon, chief marketing officer for the casino that sits on a busy Strip intersection opposite the MGM Grand and New York New York.

The decision to replace the room with slot machines last fall was pure economics, Harmon said.

“I think every company over the last several years have had to look at what they do and what makes money,” he said.

Casinos across the country are making the same calculation.

Sam’s Town in Tunica, Miss., closed its poker room in January, citing the economy. The Seminole Casino Hollywood near Fort Lauderdale, Fla., replaced its room with slots in September.

Indian casinos in states like Minnesota and the Dakotas are also pulling their rooms, according to marketing consultant Theron “Scarlet Raven” Thompson.

“What you’re seeing is the mom and pop-sized poker rooms are closing. The larger properties are monopolizing the poker crowd,” he said.
<!-- .articleBody -->

<!-- .article --> By Hannah Dreier

ASSOCIATED PRESS
 

RX Local
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
24,032
Tokens
I think that once poker online becomes legal (even if just in a few states to start) that poker will become more acceptable and not so taboo and rooms will open up again because novice players who try online will also want to play in person.. same as when poker was in a boom and everyone wanted to try after moneymaker turned rags to riches <><>

-murph
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,108,264
Messages
13,450,024
Members
99,404
Latest member
byen17188
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com