Crapless Craps

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Joe Public
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Aug 13, 2008
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Can someone explain to me (in english) how a crapless craps table has worse pass line odds than a regular craps table especially if extreme outside are bought @25 i just dont understand how thats possible. You lose the ability to win on the come out with 11 being a point but you dont lose on 2,3,12 anymore.

p.s. is it sad i am a craps dealer and i dont know the answer...

p.p.s I will be in vegas sunday, who has crapless craps downtown?
 
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[h=1]Crapless Craps[/h][h=2]from The Wizard of Odds[/h] This following information graciously provided by the Wizard of Odds, the most recognized authority on casino gaming and table odds on the Net. The Wizard is a member of the Casino.com Hall of Fame, an adjunct professor of gaming math at The University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and makes his living consulting for land and Internet casinos and casino game developers.
[h=2]Crapless Craps[/h] by the Wizard of Odds
In my ten commandments of gambling I advise that you avoid gimmicks and this is an illustrated example. The Stratosphere Casino in Vegas and some casinos in Mississippi proudly boast of "crapless craps," a craps variant in which the player can not lose a pass bet on the come out roll. If any number other than a 7 is rolled on the come out roll it becomes the point. What you are giving up is the sure winner of 11 on the come out roll. To the mathematically challenged it may seem a good deal, that you are only giving up 1 sure winner for 3 sure losers. The catch is that the probability of hitting a point of 2 or 12 is only 1/7, and the probability of hitting a point of 3 or 11 is only 1/4. So the player is not gaining much on the 2, 3, and 12 since they will likely lose anyway, but is giving up a sure winner on 11 for only a 1/4 chance of winning. Overall the house edge on the pass bet in crapless craps is 373/6930 =~ 5.382%, compared to 1.41% in a real craps game.
Crapless craps does offer free odds of 6:1 on the 2 and 12, and 3:1 on the 3 and 11. The following table shows the combined house edge by combining the pass line and the odds:
Combined house edge on
pass and buying odds
in crapless craps
1X odds 2.936%
2X odds 2.018%
3X odds 1.538%
5X odds 1.042%

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You can also make place bets on the 2, 3, 11, and 12. The 2 and 12 pay 11:2 with a house edge of 7.143%. The 3 and 11 pay 11:4 with a house edge of 6.250%. There is no don't pass bet in this game.
[h=2]Crapless Craps Story from The Bone Man[/h] One night while standing on a dead craps table, graveyard shift at the Stratosphere, Las Vegas, a customer came up and asked us if we could move over and open the Crapless Craps table.
The boxman and night shift manager said sure, no problem, so the crew closed down the regulation table and opened up Crapless Craps.
The player bought in for $500 and pretty soon at about 4:30 am other players started joining in on the action.
The Player began his wagering by making $25 Pass Line and Come Bets and started off conservative. His streak began early and pretty soon he started pressing by placing maximum odds on his Pass Line and on all Come Bets. Pretty soon, with the help of some hot rolls, he had filled all the numbers - 2,3,4,5,6,8,9,10,11 and 12 taking maximum odds.
By 7:30am or so he cashed out for $30,000.
As I was ready to take my scheduled 20-minute break at 7:40am I heard the boxman say to the night shift manager, "Gee, maybe we shouldn't have opened up Crapless Craps for that guy."
Well... Duh.
I would have liked to have seen the look on the player's face though, when he tried to cash in his chips and the cage asked him to fill out the tax form!
[h=3]Point of Trivia[/h] On a regular craps table when you refer to "Outside Numbers" you are referencing the 5,9,4 and 10. But on a Crapsless Craps table, because the 3,11,2 and 12 are also "Point Numbers" and boxes for these numbers are on the layout... the 3,11,2 and 12 are called "The Extreme Outside". But the chances are that if you ever call a combination bet to "Place the Extreme Outside" the dealer probably won't even know what you are talking about.
 

Joe Public
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Aug 13, 2008
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Ok that makes sense, with odss its pretty close to the same as regular craps.
 

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